I’ve seen Autism used as the reason that some people commit a crime. It might be a factor but in some of these I just don’t see the connection. It has been used in everything from cyber crimes to violent murders.
Autism doesn’t mean you don’t have morals and it especially doesn’t mean that one can’t care about others. On the contrary, most Autism people care deeply about other people.
https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/1hafe7s/i_despise_when_people_use_autism_as_an_excuse_for/
Committing crimes doesn’t mean that someone is immoral or doesn’t care about someone. Most crimes happen in the heat of the moment, when someone is very emotionally dysregulated.
Getting deeply, irrationally and obsessively upset about things that might seem random and pointless is a very common trait associated with Autism. Crimes can happen when someone is in that state. Doesn’t mean that their surroundings didn’t fail them, but there also is a factor of personal responsibility.
I wouldn’t say that the simplified “Crime because of Autism” is a very nuanced way to see it, but I do believe that some traits of Autism could lead to a higher chance to commit some crimes 🤷 But honestly, most mental illnesses and neurodivergencies are like that.
Yup!
And what isn’t an illegal act =/= what isn’t morally justified action.
I wake up each day already doing crime in certain countries.
Be Gay.
Do Crime.
Lots of crime! (ง ื▿ ื)ว
Crimes do not need to be committed in anger and crimes can also be petty. Autism doesn’t need to be a direct cause of a crime, but it will probably be a huge contributing factor.
I can’t think of a specific case off top of my head, but I’ll describe a scenario that I know I have been through hundreds of times. This could also apply to anti-social behavior or what would seem to be a disregard for “social rules” in general. (Excuse me while I try to explain a state of mind without a good example.)
Sometimes, an action seems the most logical in the moment. If someone was to exclaim in excitement, “Some one pinch me, because I must be dreaming!”, my first reaction would be to take that statement literally and pinch the person. In my head, the action was justified, and I would expect a positive response when we know that likely would not be the case.
If we scale that up a hair, there have been cases, with me specifically, where an action that seems logical may absolutely not be appropriate or even legal. I absolutely have no intentions of breaking a law or causing trouble, but my brain immediately tries to solve a problem in the simplist way possible and I act on what I can only describe as reflex.
I think what I am trying to describe is very similar to my distinct lack of brain-to-mouth filter. If there is an obvious solution to something, but nobody actually says it out loud, I probably will. Unbeknownst to me, everyone already was thinking what I said, and it wasn’t socially acceptable to actually say it.
Thankfully, the legal system is setup to determine actual intent. Intending to commit a crime can be much more serious than commiting a crime by accident. Even the most serious of crimes are structured this way, ie: manslaughter vs murder; intentional or accidental.
I think it can be a factor. However, you are ultimately responsible for your own actions. Autism doesn’t make you commit a crime. You are the one who perpetrates the offense.
I do believe that some traits of Autism could lead to a higher chance to commit some crimes
i’m not sure about that, though. iirc neurodivergent people (including autists) are more likely to be victims of violent crime than neurotypicals
it is really concerning to see most commenters taking the claim that autistic people are more likely to commit crime at face value, not only doing so without any data to back it up, but also unaware (or willfully ignorant) that the data says otherwise: autistic people are more likely to be victims of violent crime than allistic people. this is a dangerous narrative fueled by preexisting hatred of neurodivergent people that only serves to further marginalize us.
this kind of narrative is unfortunately the expected anywhere else, but seeing it play out in a forum specifically about autism is particularly upsetting. if you’re neurotypical and you’re spreading this here, kindly go fuck yourself (also go look for actual data, not biased anecdotes by sensationalist media); if you’re autistic, though, please please please do not believe this shit, you are the vulnerable side of autism, not the people around you.
I do think it is easier for Autistic people to get tricked into doing non violent crimes. They get involved with the wrong people and before you know it they are smuggling drugs and developing Ransomeware just to fit in.
cool story, but is there any data that corroborates that? i’m genuinely asking
Personal experience
Not with me but members of my family
This is the thing I worry about. I think it’s especially a problem for ADHD people. I can very easily imagine an autistic person who has been isolated and socially rejected being very worried about social judgement and rejection, so they end up participating in serious crimes out of fear of rejection.
Can you give an example?
Me giving an answer based on a hypothetical I thought of, followed by disagreement by someone based on a hypothetical they thought of, is not effective discussion.
Autistic people tend to run counter to norms. Laws are basically just norms. This makes autistic people frequently both victims of discrimination and perpetrators of crimes. I also think autistic people tend to be deeply frustrated by society and this makes us lash out from time to time.
I don’t think that means that you can just claim “oh I have Autism” and be free of responsibility
I feel the same way about autism as when most any disease or disorder is used as the reason as to why someone would commit a crime: it’s only a part and isn’t always relevant to the crime.
Besides the reason given by @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip which is a very real situation rarely considered by policy makers.
Sometimes laws don’t always align with morality. What morality eventually means is always subjective but many of us carry a deep desire for objective justice and are strongly opposed to going against their own moral code.
I generally don’t break laws because the ones i encounter tend to make sense, most traffic laws. But a law also does nothing to stop me if i see no sense in following it.
I don’t think that having autism is necessarily a defense and on its own certainly doesn’t justify an insanity defense.
Obviously, most autistic are not likely to commit a serious non victimless crime. There are some crimes were autistic people are over represented, but on average they are less likely to commit violent crimes.
The empathy issue is complicated though. From what I understand, autistic people have more emotional empathy but less cognitive empathy. More cognitive empathy is also not always a good thing. Caring about other people can also lead to doing heinous things in the name of supposed compassion to people who are seen as perpetrators. It can also lead to evil acts that are seen as compassionate, such as euthanasia.
I figure if a specialist determines they’re fit to stand trial then they’re on the hook for whatever they did.
