It’s not lying as much as it’s advertising. If they’re asking about your greatest weakness, tell them. Just don’t neglect to mention how you mitigate that weakness too, and are improving. Don’t let your answer end on “I’m a disorganized mess”, end it on “so in the last year, I’ve started building and using checklists and it’s been really effective”.
In the same way, be up front if they ask about the criteria you don’t meet. But consider your entire answer, again, you can say something like “I actually haven’t worked in that language before, but I’ve done lots of work in Python and Java, so I’m confident I can pick it up quickly as needed”. If they don’t ask, then it probably wasn’t really that important of a criteria to them, so you shouldn’t waste your interview time talking about it either.
Don’t volunteer all your worst traits, you only have an hour, so focus on describing your strengths as often as you can. Nobody expects to completely understand you as a person in one hour, they’re specifically asking you to come in and advertise yourself. Instead, read between the lines in the listing (I.E. Things mentioned in the job description or title are likely more important than something in a single bullet point. Look for repetition, or how much they talk about each requirement.). Figure out what the “customer” wants that you’re good at, and ensure you emphasize it, repeatedly. Define clear takeaways and make sure they know what you’re offering, and will actually remember it too.
And practice your answers to many questions. Come up with your best anecdotes for “a time you resolved a conflict with a coworker” and all that nonsense in advance, so that you can confidently segue into those stories that best emphasize your takeaways when asked. Do some research on the company to come up with a good answer to questions like “why do you want to work here?”. The answer doesn’t have to be your top priority, which is obviously “a paycheque”, but just append an unsaid “instead of somewhere else” and answer honestly, because people are good at detecting insincerity. You likely haven’t applied to every company on earth, so tell them why you chose them.
Lastly, like an advertiser, don’t be afraid to segue from other questions into your prepared answers. “Yeah, I’ve always loved X, that’s why I wanted to work here actually, I’d heard a bit about how you were getting involved with X, but with this interesting twist, and thought that sounded like something I’d really enjoy working on”. The interview questions are designed to get you talking about yourself, it’s not a survey where the strict questions are all that matter, and you can simply joke about it if the question comes up later.
As an autistic person I relate to this so hard it isn’t funny.
Neurotypical people are more “morally flexible.” Which sounds like hypocricy and corruption to me. Assume NT’s have ultirior motives and it becomes a easier to read between the lines.
Hypocrisy and corruption are easy to breed from that, true. But the NT is also get a nice set of useful tools from it as well, like choosing their battles, and not painting people into corners.
How those tools are used are basically down to core morality and how you want to apply it to your subordinates, co-workers, and management.
I suspect I’m not fully ante and a lot of those lessons were difficult to figure out.
That’s a rather uncharitable, and frankly conspiratorial, way of viewing things lol
So far, the other comments have failed to realize that this is actually some of our thought process and way of adapting to neurotypical norms.
I will say that after I get used to a person’s body language and speech patterns, I tend to ease off of assuming ulterior motives (which has bitten me on the ass once or twice).
I think this is more true than most would like to think.
Reality is more nuanced than the words with which we describe it. A lot of NT “flexibility” is about recognising that. But, it often spills over into what is, really, lying.
Or we understand that a lot of the criteria is just a wishlist, and as long as you meet a significant chunk of it, the rest can be learned in the job.
I have a stable job that I like.
Sometimes I think I should go to interviews just to make recruiters feel insecure, “your business is not up to my expectations” “what do you mean you don’t provide flexible remote working?” “Your paycheck is just too small for me, sorry”.
I would get a laugh of of it and probably would help some fella by lowering this fuckers ego.
I do this all the time. Keeps my interview skills sharp. Plus you never know when somewhere will wind up making you an insane offer.
I dont know why they do it and I dont care to find out. I just know I apply even if I dont match the complete criteria. If I tick off 60-70% of what they want, I’ll apply. We are people, not machines. If something doesnt match but is close to it, we try and make it work. This is how the real world works. There are multiple factors at play and they can work in your favour.
I got my first job which required a college degree and some experience. I had personal (non-professional) experience and no degree. Showed an interest in the work they did, told them I work on my own things from time to time and got hired. What probably worked in my favor was a lack of other applicants showing the same degree of interest. I even told them I’d graduate in a year and we made it a requirement. Never got my degree and worked there for 7 years. No lying, some luck and showing an interest. Same strategy worked two more times (out of two), 1st interview and “wanna come work for us?”. Its easier the second time since experience is built up already. And im not some extroverted silver tongued devil or anything. The right interviewer at the right time.
It’s because they’re actually lying about the criteria, its more like a wish list than actual requirements. In the interview just say oh I only know a little about criteria x but I’m keen to learn or whatever
Also if you lie on the application, aren’t they able to use that as an easy out to fire/lay you off without needing anything further?
You’re giving the people handling hiring way too much credit and assuming they are way better about documentation than they generally are lol
A lot og questions can be answered diplomatically and slow that you are able to handle yourself:
Q: do you like the colour red?
A1: I hate red A2: I don’t like red A3: Not my favourite colour A4: I prefer blue
In this entirely made up and pointless exercise you hate red and are asked if you like it. Real world applications converging on zero.
On a scale of lie to truth, where are you comfortable with representing your thoughts of red in an interview?
And remember, only Sith deals in absolutes🙃
The thing is, they are treacherous with their questions. Because the question itself doesn’t matter, what you answer is not the question itself, but the hidden question behind.
This means they don’t trust you to answer honestly, and yet, once you know how the process goes, they actually encourage people to be treacherous too.
This is a lose-lose strategy that they’re using. They are selecting treacherous people instead of qualified people. Probably because they are not qualified themselves, and because qualifications don’t matter to most companies. What matters is appearances and selling an idea.
I don’t consider myself neurodivergent but I do consider this issue one of the greatest barriers with my finding employment. I was raised to despise lying, and enough bad experiences have made me consider ‘massaging the truth’ to be the exact same thing.
Those HR people who make the listing don’t understand most of it anyway.
“I’m looking fora Data Analyst”
“Gotcha, we put up an ad for Data Science”
“No, Data Analyst, that’s diff-”
“Here, we already got some applicants”
“They’ll be very disappointed to learn that I’m not interested in their AI skills”
I’m learning how many names there are now for “person who can shoot and edit video” since I last needed to look for a job in my field. To the point that I suddenly find a new keyword and there’s like 10 more jobs I can apply for.
Oh lord, as a 25 year industry vet in everything audio and video, that’s been with my current company for a looooong time, this bothers me. Out of interest what kinda whacky names are you seeing for this kinda roll?
Weird-ass shit like “Lead Creative” and “Social Marketing Executive”
It’s also ridiculous how often I see „Java“ instead of „JavaScript“ in job listings.
Maybe they have a ton of different machines and need an app that works in any environment?
That whole routine doesn’t magically make sense to neurotypical people either.
Unfortunately this did not pan out for me at all when I tried to move out of IT support. Now I make fries and sandwiches (I don’t even make them, I just put the toppings on). If possible I’ll probably do this til I die, not cuz I love it, but because I never want to go through with the job application process ever again.
You have to go out and get a bullshit CompTIA certificate, otherwise no one will talk to you anymore.
You are not suppose to lie - you are suppose to apply for jobs that you are insanely overqualified for. Why? Because your competition is doing the same thing.
Apply for jobs that say you are under qualified, but that you are actually very much overqualified or at least matched for.
Ah, the beautiful awful hidden rules of human society…
You see, birds can fly thousands of miles/kilometers across entire continents, surviving through stuff that Mother Nature makes available. No need for bureaucracies, no need for Walmart, no need for “money”, no need for “being useful to aviary society”, just following the natural and evolutionary flows.
However, for some reason, humans can’t do the same, humans need to try and detach themselves from Nature. Yet we can point out exactly what’s the reason: the curse of sentience. Once upon a time, Dubito ergo cogito, cogito ergo sum, and humans became their own predators (Homo homini lupus est), yearning for something bigger to save them from themselves… (perhaps some “Leviathan”?)
Suddenly, they conceptualize the “free will”, yet they realize that existing, being a being, implies no free will at all. Existential and societal compliance (Derren Brown has good documentaries about the latter), being tangled by an invisible spider web of lies and rules. And because they’re alive, they become culprits as if existence was some kind of circle of hell to be faced by those who “dared to exist”: “you’re alive, so comply with your societal duties!”.
So is my body hungry against my will, or it’s raining over my body? I need food and shelter. Oh, but there’s the catch: I’m supposed to “buy/rent” them, because “there’s no such thing as a free lunch”. Buying and renting imply money, which implies the need something for its exchange… Some people (“the top 1% of the top 1%, the guys that play God without permission”) have golden cradles, oh, shame on me I hadn’t one, so I’m supposed to do the alternative thing: dedicate myself to a company’s brand, doing my efforts to make the company functional.
But there’s another catch: I can’t simply “be part of a company”, I need to be “hired”, but I need to “be qualified” to be hired. Oh, I’m not “qualified” enough in the eyes of their HR? I’m not going to be hired. Am I qualified? I’ll going to talk with a “recruiter”, which will ask me rhetorical questions (“So why do you want to work for this company?”, but I can’t answer “to not starve” or “to afford a rent”) which I’m supposed to reply in a “proper” way (i.e. pretending, but without being so evident that I’m pretending). I couldn’t pretend enough? I’m not hired.
No company is required to hire me, for they’re “private properties”, so I need to seek another company where I’d “qualify”. So I’m supposed to “distribute” my “curriculum vitae” across several job vacancies, waiting which one will “stick first” (as per someone’s reply here, in this very thread). Oh, but there’s another catch: job vacancy services are only good enough if I paid for them, I’m supposed to pay them in order to my curriculum to really be known to some HR… you know, so I could be “hired” and “work” and exchange my efforts with “money” so I can pay things, such as… job vacancy services. In a nutshell, I need to pay for a service so I can pay for other services. Hey, look, there flies another bird across the skies, unaware of our societal compliance complexities. They came from another country yet they have no visa nor passport! Hey, look, they’re eating “freely”, how audacious of them!
Apologies for my digression. The obvious shall be told about the society, and neurodivergents (I guess I’m one?) are the ones who can see those obviousnesses and write them as detailed as they can be.
I wouldn’t like to be a bird. If a bird gets sick it will probably die. If a bird is injured it will probably die. If a bird is born disabled in some way it will probably die. Not to speak about all the predators just waiting to eat you.
If a bird gets sick it will probably die. If a bird is injured it will probably die. If a bird is born disabled in some way it will probably die. Not to speak about all the predators just waiting to eat you.
Is it really different from human reality? If a human gets sick, there’s a significant probability of not affording proper healthcare, be it private or public.
If a human is born disabled in some way, they’ll need to face several bureaucracies just to continue being state-supported to continue surviving. This becomes even more challenging for “invisible conditions” such rheumatic, neurological and mental ones, because no one else sees or feels it beyond the human that suffers from it.
Not to mention all the humans just wanting to pull the rug out from under you (falsehood and betrayal), be it in professional or academic relations, be it in familiar relations. They won’t literally eat another human, but they won’t care if others die because of prisoner’s dilemma of betrayal and falsehood.
The difference, IMHO, is that there are no made-up predators, no made-up system pretending that they care for other’s health, and most importantly: there’s no apparent sentience among “wild” living beings of how harsh the Nature reality can be. They simply try to survive as closest to Nature’s nature as possible, while humans, no, humans consciously try to make it even harsher for others to survive.
Back when humans still were simply hominids, they needed to fight or flee from jaguars, bears, snakes, etc. We had real predators, until one of them discovered the fire, which allowed them to be “fearsome” against these animals, scaring them away, “delimiting” lands and then filling the vacuum (“Nature abhors a vacuum”) of real predators with made-up predators: themselves.
Yes it is really different from human society. You yourself admitted it. In all those cases the bird has almost no chance of survival while we do. I don’t say humans would survive 100% of the time but it’s a fighting chance. I don’t say it is fair. Nature is also unfair.
Like you stated in many places in the world even a disabled person can survive on the labor of society, even if it is a struggle. In many sane places medical care is relatively affordable i.e. socialized. I once spent a month in hospital paying around ~200€ total. And while that is an extreme privilege some access to healthcare even if poor can be found all over the world.
Humans are capable of extreme cruelty but humans are also capable of great compassion. Especially in smaller groups.
Yes, and then don’t provide “real” answers at the interview, make up stuff they want to hear, be friendly and create small talk with a complete stranger, act like you actually GAF about the company when all you want to do is just get a job and start working, screw all this people-interaction stuff.
For me, getting the interview is the hard part.
I’ve never interviewed for a job where I didn’t get the offer. I can’t say exactly what works for me, but I can explain my process a bit.
First off, I go in confident. a lot of that probably had to do with my history with interviews, but that’s the first part.
Secondly, I look at it as me interviewing the company. I want to know the company is right for me. To that end, I ask a lot of questions about the position and the team. I ask if they’re looking to fill a hole or are willing to have the role reinvented.
Obviously, that last bit is for taking a unique role in the comment, not just as cashier number 23.
I am also clear that I’m not looking to remain in that position forever. I want to work at it a few years and move on, wither within the company or elsewhere. I won’t bail in 6 months, but I also won’t do the same job with no evolution for 10 years. My career needs to grow.
Essentially, I try to interview in a manner where they’re trying to win me over instead of weed me out.
I’m my current job, I was relaxed, got the interviewers talking family and casually about the projects, started giving feedback on issues as if I was already on board, and essentially changed it from an interview to a group meeting.
It turns out I was asking for about 30% more than my competition, but they gave it to me anyway, and it all came down to making myself feel like a member of the team they wanted to hold onto rather than just someone looking for a paycheck.
And I’m absolutely there for the paycheck. I liked my old job a lot more, but I got like a 60% pay bump going to the new job.
Years ago when I was applying for my first job I actually had to pretend that it always been my dream to work as a shelf stacker. It was such a weird game because everyone involved knows that it’s a total lie, they know your just telling them what they want to hear, you know that they know that you’re just telling them what they want to hear, they know that you know that they know you’re just telling them what they want to hear. But it doesn’t matter, you still have to go through the charade.
If you tell him the truth, that you’ll disappear as soon as you find someone prepared to pay you more than minimum wage, they won’t hire you. Despite the fact that everyone involved knows that that is the case, regardless of how honest you are about it.
yes that’s the point
they want someone desperate enough to lie to them and to themselves that their childhood dream is to become a shelf stacker, they want someone out of options, they want someone who will stay with them for a long time without even as much as a whimper of a complaint about low pay or the working conditions
if you have ambitions, you’re not who they’re looking for
best believe the same company will keep a ghost job listing for a shelf stacker up at all times, just so that the current employees feel replaceable and don’t dare to step out of line in fear of losing their job
But it doesn’t change even if you’re searching for executive-level jobs. They still want to know why you not only have wanted to be Junior VP of Marketing your entire life, they want to know why you have also wanted to be Junior VP of Marketing of ConHugeCo Industries all your life while applying to work that position at ConHugeCo.
Everyone knows the answer is “because I want this job more than the one I have right now” or just “because I need a job.” Those are really the only two answers.
It’s really ridiculous.
well i think half my point still stands - they want to know you’re not quitting any time soon. If you answer “yeah sure i guess the position sounds nice” they’re already scheduling the next interview because you ain’t sticking around
but yeah, it is absolutely ridiculous, i’m not an actor, and i’m neurodivergent, navigating those job market mind games is hell
I think of myself as a neutodivergent person but I am annoyed by neurodivergent people who act like everything is binary yes/no black/white full volume/absolute silence. Like, everyone in the world knows that the gas pedal in the car is not an on/off switch and believe it or not but other things in life are like that.
Black and white thinking is pretty common in ASD though isn’t it?
Get out of here with your smart and reasonable take!
